Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to imperfectly honest. Kayla here.
If there's one lesson I've been learning lately, it's that trusting yourself is not the same as having all the answers.
See, for most of my life, I believed that if I worked hard enough, planned carefully enough, and stayed just one step ahead, then I could control the outcome. But, you know, life has a funny way of reminding us that some of our greatest opportunities and greatest opportunities for growth show up when we loosen our grip and make room for the unexpected.
This conversation with Elizabeth couldn't have come at a better time to really remind me of this simple truth. Together, we explore what it means to trust yourself, how to recognize the quiet signs that you're in alignment and find the courage to pause instead of pushing when life isn't unfolding according to your little plan.
So whether you believe in synchronicities, intuition, or simply the wisdom that comes from slowing down long enough to hear yourself think, my hope is that this episode encourages you to ask one simple and important question.
What might be possible if I trusted that I already have what I need?
As always, thanks for tuning in. Let's get to the episode.
[00:01:25] Speaker B: This isn't imperfectly honest.
I'm Elizabeth, and after about four decades, I'm shifting from the person I always thought I should be to the person I really want to be, in part because I've learned to be honest both with myself and just about everybody I encounter. It's not always perfect. Sometimes it's a rocky road. But I'm learning a lot by being imperfectly honest and thought you might learn something, too.
[00:01:54] Speaker C: Hey, listeners, we have Kayla Gorski here back on the podcast.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: Hello.
[00:01:59] Speaker C: Hi, Kayla.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: Hi.
[00:02:02] Speaker C: So, Kayla and I have had a couple conversations about whether we might already have exactly what we need, and to pose a question of what might happen if we just trusted that we've already done the work and we have what we need and that things will play out the way that they're supposed to, and if it doesn't go the way that we envision or the way that we want it to, that we'll learn something along the way and that ultimately we will get to where we are supposed to be.
So, Kayla, it's funny I asked you to move our meeting up because I thought that I was going to be way ahead of schedule today.
And you have an exciting meeting after this, so you weren't able to do that, and it ended up being impeccable timing. I got back to my computer to start recording at 11:59 for our noon meeting, and I guess that's just on point that things sometimes work out even when you think that they aren't going to.
[00:03:14] Speaker D: No, it's so true. And I really believe that through my friendship with you, it's helped provide a really beautiful lens to explore that very thought so much more and to really feel the safety and the security in the letting go of needing to control the itinerary, the process, the journey, the. The final outcome, all of it, and really just trust that the work that is being put in across the board is all aligned with my highest good. And you're exactly right. I think when we soften that grip and sort of find that space of. Of surrender, a lot of really good things come to exist.
[00:04:03] Speaker C: Agreed. So we haven't had a chance to catch up in about a week or so. And I am curious, are you feeling in flow and like things are going your way at the moment?
[00:04:16] Speaker D: I am. I am actually, you know, I think it's a cycle. Right. Where there are certainly moments and that does not feel like. Like my truth. And things do feel a little more challenging. But in this moment, I really do feel in flow, I really feel aligned and that within that there are just these little synchronicities and opportunities that are starting to appear.
And I just feel really grateful to be in this space where I have space to see them and to recognize them and not again be so bogged down by thinking that, you know, my itinerary, my day, whatever it is, needs to function in a certain way where I end up missing out on some of those things.
[00:05:07] Speaker A: Things.
[00:05:07] Speaker D: And I think that's something that I think you do so well, Elizabeth, where you really do surrender to the possibility that something greater can be waiting. And I'm just curious, have you always been sort of wired like that, or is this a. A newer perspective and outlook for you too?
[00:05:30] Speaker C: No.
Underscore. No, I am not always.
[00:05:36] Speaker D: Oh, yes, my recovering perfectionist.
Yeah.
[00:05:41] Speaker C: So I have always been a woman with a plan that I felt like I was in control of my own destiny. And I'm grateful that I had that perspective in my first half of life. My 45th birthday is Friday, so I guess this is officially midlife.
Is that right?
[00:06:05] Speaker D: How did I not know Friday is your birthday? This is so exciting.
[00:06:09] Speaker C: Yeah. And I don't know if you remember, but we went to a 40th birthday party recently, and I could not for the life of me remember what I did for my 40th birthday.
[00:06:22] Speaker D: I do remember that.
[00:06:25] Speaker C: And I figured it out because just another example of things that go my way when I'm not trying to push.
So I'm unexpectedly going to be in Helena this weekend, and I wanted to do the triathlon in Helena that I never got a chance to do because I was injured the whole time that I lived there.
And I looked it up and lo and behold, it's Sunday when I'm going to be there.
And so I'm going to do the triathlon for my 45th birthday.
[00:06:59] Speaker D: Amazing. Good for you. What a way to celebrate.
[00:07:02] Speaker C: Thank you. And I now remember what I did for my 40th birthday, which is that I did the Boulder Peak Triathlon right before I moved from Colorado. And that's the last triathlon that I was able to do before I got sick and had my curved spine. And I'm finally to the point, five years later, that I can do another one just perfectly on my fifth year anniversary.
[00:07:27] Speaker D: Wow, what a great full circle moment. That's incredible.
[00:07:30] Speaker C: Thanks. Thanks.
But back to your earlier question. No, I have not always been this way. And I'm glad that I was a woman with a plan for the first chapter of my life, because feeling like I was in control of my destiny encouraged me to put myself out there, to drive for my goals, all those things.
And it wasn't really until I got sick and was forced to pause and to accept that even when you think that you're in control and you think that you have a plan you are not well into.
[00:08:08] Speaker D: I think, listen to the signs and the pace and the wisdom that our body has and that our body wants us to take. You know, I think burnout is something that we hear so much about.
It's pervasive in our culture. And it's.
It's this thing where, you know, when somebody's experiencing low energy, they think that the way to counter it is to just double down and to, you know, override that, invest more time, output, like whatever the thing is. And it does not. It does not result in, I think, what the person was ultimately seeking. It doesn't write that you just kind of dig yourself a bit deeper, deeper, deeper. And so to pause and to take inventory, to give yourself that opportunity to rest, to heal, to reassess. I can appreciate that that may be a privilege for some and there are just other demands in everyday life, but to the extent that we can listen and pause in those moments, I think that's just such a gift.
[00:09:14] Speaker C: I agree.
So what signs do you see that indicate that you are in flow? How do you determine that?
[00:09:24] Speaker D: As I alluded to before, I think it's the recognition of different synchronicities and opportunities. For example, this meeting that you mentioned that I have later today that I'm really excited about coming in, or friends, new friends that have an experience or a story that I need to hear in that moment.
You know, I've shared a bit here with you. Just being in this state of professional exploration and transition and finding these new little opportunities to cultivate greater financial abundance, all of those little things kind of lining up. I think another sign and thing that I'll look for is just how joyful does my day feel at the end of each day when I'm shutting it down?
Do I feel really full or do I feel sort of depleted? And almost looking at that joy barometer, if you will, is I think a really good indicator for me how in flow I am. Do those resonate with you? Do you have any different ones that you use?
[00:10:32] Speaker C: They do. I also have some random things. So sometimes when I'm in flow and I'm especially when I'm feeling unsure as to whether I'm on the right path, I have small signs like I'll be in a hurry and remember that the shirt that I wanted to wear is in my dryer full of clothing. And I don't have time to sift through all that clothes to find the shirt. And I'll open up my dryer door and that shirt will be perfectly pressed up against the dryer drawer just waiting for me.
And then I see bigger signs like, I haven't had a chance to tell you this story yet, Kayla, but I have been working on this project up in Paradise Valley, Montana with my friend John. It's a real estate development project. And John is the hardest working entrepreneur I've met to date, which says a lot because I've literally met thousands of entrepreneurs as a venture capitalist.
[00:11:36] Speaker D: Very extraordinary ones, truly.
[00:11:38] Speaker C: Yes, very extraordinary ones. And John has been in a marathon for a while and I was not going to be around.
I was going to leave town, fourth of July. So I was really pushing him to go take some time off and see his family.
And he was saying, you know, I'm too busy, I'm too busy, I can't do it.
And later that night, he was telling the story when the World cup game came on about how much he appreciates the World cup now because one of the things that he does with his family is watch the World cup game.
And we went to bed and we were in bedrooms on opposite sides of the living room.
And I wake up out of a dead sleep and The World cup game is on full blast on the tv.
And I'm just cursing John, thinking, how rude at two in the morning for him to get up and turn on the World cup game.
And then I hear John yelling at me for turning the TV on. And he walks out in the living room and I'm in bed. And this is not a TV that's old school where you turn it on and it comes to the channel that it was on before. This is a smart TV that you have to turn on, that you have to go to Hulu, that you have to select live tv, all these things.
And we have seen weird signs up there because he inherited the land that he is developing from his uncle who passed away.
And I have always had this story, whether it's right or not, that his uncle, who lived alone for his whole life, wants John to prioritize family and relationships more than he did.
And there's been a couple times when John was not prioritizing things other than work, that we've received some sort of a sign from his uncle.
[00:13:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:46] Speaker C: And I said right away, oh, my gosh, it's Uncle Wes.
I mean, there was no other way. The door was locked. We're in the middle of rural Montana, and John is a total skeptic. He does not believe in stuff like this. And he said, you know what? I think you're right.
So I went to sleep, and the next morning I woke up and there was this beautiful, beautiful rainbow. And I had this just extreme sense of calm when I saw it. And I looked up the significance of rainbows in different cultures. And in most cultures, it signifies the connection of heaven and earth and the spiritual and the earthly existence.
And I just feel certain that it was him saying, you're on the right path, that Elizabeth, keep encouraging him to do this. And thank you for doing that.
[00:14:50] Speaker D: Yeah, and thank you for being open to the signs. You know, I think that's such a big thing where they're all around us all of the time.
And it's really just a question of are we open enough and paying attention enough to receive them?
[00:15:07] Speaker C: Exactly. And to your point, before, I did not start receiving signs, or at least I never noticed signs until I got sick four years ago.
Do you see more signs when you feel like you're in flow?
[00:15:22] Speaker D: Yes, I do think I see more signs when I'm in flow because I think I'm more connected to myself and to my intuition.
What about you? Do you feel like there's a greater quantity or just you notice it maybe more Easily with less struggle when you're in flow.
[00:15:41] Speaker C: I do, yes. So I've felt very much in flow this week. And also, I don't know if you have this experience, but my flow often comes after hardship.
I don't see signs until the flow starts to come.
Do you have that or no?
[00:16:02] Speaker D: You know, I've never really thought about it in that way or seen that pattern because I do think that there are different signs that do appear when I'm experiencing these moments of challenge that help kind of pull me out and bring me back into alignment or reignite that trust in myself.
So I wouldn't say that it's quiet and they don't exist when I'm maybe not in full creative flow, but I think they just come more freely, if that makes sense.
Yeah, Signs. Gosh, I. I love the topic and, and thinking about it. There's a book that I turn to pretty frequently. It's called Signs and. And it's the secret language of the universe. It's written by Laura Lynn Jackson. And it really just breaks down all of the different ways that those we have loved and have lost continue to connect with us. And how there is just this subtle language that is available that might not come through the spoken word anymore and sharing that physical space with someone. But as you mentioned, through.
Through rainbows, through light flickers and TVs popping on, through different animals coming through our path. My. My dad passed away 13 years ago.
There was just a really dark period that I experienced in that immediate period of. Of loss when it was still really raw and I was living in LA at the time.
And in those moments of just really feeling like I needed comfort from him, I would talk to him out loud. And I mean, without fail, a hummingbird would scoot in and it would just. It would visit me and it would be there. And this became a theme and a little animal that has followed me all the way to Montana.
When I first moved to Montana now, gosh, seven, eight years ago, I'll never forget, I pulled into my driveway on Father's Day, actually, so mid June, and there were hummingbirds outside the door, just kind of fluttering around. And it was such a sign to me that even though my address had changed, my dad was still very much with me, very much walking this path with me, and supportive of the distance decision I had made.
[00:18:33] Speaker C: What a beautiful story.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:37] Speaker C: So I'm not sure if everyone receives signs and that maybe everyone receives them, but people don't notice them or if somehow were chosen to receive signs. But regardless, I Think that it can be really hard sometimes to know whether hardship is something that you need to push against or accept.
I'll just give you an example of something that happened to me this weekend.
I ended up in the hospital last 4th of July with some complications to upper respiratory infection and some health conditions that I didn't know that I had. And it was a pretty traumatic experience.
And I was really looking forward to spending this fourth of July in joy. And I had fun plans with a friend, and he's recently divorced and he got a call from his daughter from summer camp 24 hours before our plans were supposed to start, asking him to come pick her up because she was feeling a little homesick and wanted to spend fourth of July with him. Given the circumstances surrounding her call, it was clear that he was meant to do that. And it left me with no fourth of July plans. And I thought, oh, well, John, who I've been encouraging to go see his family, is going to be alone on 4th of July. I'll just go hang with him.
And as I'm driving back to our house to maybe hang with him, he calls me and says, hey, I've been listening to what you've been saying and I'm not going to be able to go see my family, but I'm going to go see my really good friend who's three hours away and she's like family, and I'm going to take your advice. And in that moment, I started crying because I just had such a Bad memories of last 4th of July.
[00:20:49] Speaker D: You needed to reclaim this one?
[00:20:52] Speaker C: Yes.
And I am glad that my plans fell through because it gave me the opportunity to see how far I've come since last 4th of July.
And I needed that experience.
And I've had many moments like that, especially since I got sick four years ago.
And I look back at a lot of moments from my past where I felt like the odds against me were insurmountable and that I should keep pushing. And I did.
And I ultimately succeeded because I kept pushing water uphill with a rake. And so I'm just curious, do you have any thoughts on how you know when to keep pushing and when to accept?
[00:21:38] Speaker D: Oh, gosh. I mean, I wish I had a crystal ball to help navigate that one. I think everyone does.
Y I think it's something I'm still working on myself and am just more acutely aware of it, which helps because it doesn't feel like the default where I need to struggle to win or to succeed. I am finding that success can come through Ease and through softening. And so I think more of those experiences that I. That I kind of stack up and have, it shows me that both ways are possible.
One is not better than the other. They both can exist. And I think it's just what does that circumstance demand and really call for? Because I do find that even maybe taking your foot off the gas and embracing a little bit more ease can actually be a form of participation.
You're still finding that forward momentum. It perhaps it just is operating in a more subtle sort of state and capacity.
So I think I've really been working hard to just find space for that alternate reality to. To be true as well. Because it is tough. I think our default is to struggle, choose the more difficult path, just do the thing we said we were going to do at all costs, even if there are so many circumstances around us begging us to rethink that path and slow down.
[00:23:23] Speaker C: I agree. And when things feel hard, I constantly ask myself, what would this look like if it were easy? And a lot of times innovation comes out of that.
[00:23:34] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:23:35] Speaker C: Also, I try to pay attention to whether things keep coming my way that are indicating that it's not working.
So just like I was saying, when I'm in flow, things just sort of feel easy. I find when I'm on the wrong path, little things like I'll go to the grocery store and be carrying a bag into my kitchen and the bottom of the bag will drop out and I'll. Cracked eggs are all over my kitchen floor or something like that. Just sort of being in tune to things other than the task at hand.
I often give this example in business.
So sometimes you need to run a sprint to figure out if you're in the right direction for the marathon. So I started my first business at 24, and it was a good idea. But what I learned with that idea is that if you have a good idea and all your competitors can copy that idea and they have much deeper pockets than you, then that's not going to go so well for you.
The business was good when we started, and then our competitors started to copy it and it became much harder and. And I wasn't sure if I should keep pushing and trying to get a competitor to buy me rather than to shutter my business.
And I decided to do a sprint. I came up with a list of 300 colleges that I was going to call to try to sell to. It was pretty grueling to do that, but we needed to have more sales traction in order to determine whether we were going to be Bought by another company. So I called 300 colleges and I got something like three clients.
Just that was a clear sign it was time to change course, that, that that chapter had run its course.
[00:25:42] Speaker D: But how good did it feel to know that you didn't leave anything on the table? You leaned in, you did everything in your power to, to really take it to its fullest potential. In point. And then you were able to decide. And I do think that that's such an important step in business, in life, to eradicate the possibility of those other answers. Just knowing that you showed up fully and truly gave it your all.
[00:26:10] Speaker C: I agree.
And sometimes doing the opposite, just stepping away from the business or the problem or the situation to get out into the woods and just see things from a different perspective helps. Which brings me to my final question. So you just spent 4th of July in the woods solo.
I'm curious what you found there.
[00:26:38] Speaker D: Well, I actually, I ended up going with a dear friend. I thought that it might be a solo trip at first, and then a friend was able to join. And so the two of us went out with, with my faithful companion, my dog, Ranger. And we found quiet and peace. And it was so, it was so lovely. We were out in the Beartooth Mountains for a two night backpacking adventure. And over the course of that time, I think we saw six other humans. And it was like very brief encounters and just that time away from phones and screens and distraction and other people vying for attention and all of, you know, just all of the noise. It just felt like such a gift to get quiet with myself. And there's no shortage of, of conversation with this friend. And I think that I find that with my, my women friends in particular, it's usually like pretty chatty.
There aren't a whole lot of pauses. But we really commented once we got back to the, the trailhead on the way out that we had some really nice moments where we might have been near each other, but we weren't talking. And we were really in our own thoughts and just really embracing that quiet. And I think that it's something that's so important to be able to give ourselves every once in a while because the world is just loud. There is so much noise and there is so, I mean, there is so much through just the scroll of a phone that is screaming at us. And I think it distracts us from really getting focused on what our, our flow is, what our, what our passion is, what is the thing that is lighting us up. And to be able to do that, I just I find it so important for myself. And I'm always encouraging people to find those little pockets of quiet, even if it's just a 30 minute walk around your block with no headphones in and leaving your phone at home.
I think quiet is one of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves.
[00:28:59] Speaker C: I agree. And it also helps you reconnect to your animal self.
And I think that that is what often brings out intuition and signs and things like that. We are animals and we do have instincts, and oftentimes we know what to do.
We just need to trust that we know.
[00:29:18] Speaker D: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:29:21] Speaker C: Well, that might be a good place for us to end. Just sometimes we have to trust that we know.
[00:29:28] Speaker D: Indeed.
[00:29:29] Speaker C: All right, Kayla, thank you, as always.
[00:29:32] Speaker D: Happy early birthday, my friend.
[00:29:35] Speaker C: Thank you.
Bye.
[00:29:37] Speaker D: Bye.
