Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome back to imperfectly honest. I'm Kayla, and here we are celebrating 50 episodes together. Over the past year, I've had the privilege of watching Elizabeth do something that I think is increasingly rare. Stay deeply committed to curiosity. And I'm not talking about curiosity as a buzzword, but as a practice. A willingness to question her own assumptions, revisit old beliefs, and even change her mind publicly when life gives her new information.
If you've been listening from the beginning, you've probably noticed it, too. The conversations aren't really about shoes in the house, email etiquette, germs, or living alone. They're about what those topics reveal about us and how our perspectives evolve as we do.
Being part of this journey alongside Elizabeth has invited me to hold up the mirror to my own life in ways I never expected.
It's challenged me to ask harder and, dare I say, better questions, to become more comfortable saying I don't know and to simply loosen my grip on the need to be right.
So before you dive into the episode, I'd like to leave you with one question.
Where has imperfectly honest pushed you outside your comfort zone? Which conversation made you reconsider a belief, see someone differently, or simply become a little more curious? Stick around after Elizabeth's conversation with Sheila, because we'll be taking a look back at some of the wisdom revealed in these past 50 episodes.
So here's to continuing to ask better questions, staying open to changing our minds, and embracing the beautifully imperfect work of being human.
[00:01:56] Speaker B: Enjoy.
[00:01:57] Speaker A: Number 50.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: This is imperfectly honest. I'm Elizabeth, and after about four decades, I'm shifting from the person I always thought I should be to the person I really want to be, in part because I've learned to be honest both with myself and just about everybody I encounter. It's not always perfect. Sometimes it's a rocky road. But I'm learning a lot by being imperfectly honest and thought you might learn something, too. Hey, listeners.
Welcome to our 50th Five Zero episode. I've invited my imperfectly honest co founder Sheila Lamont back on the podcast to talk about what we've learned. Hey, Sheila, thanks for being here.
[00:02:41] Speaker C: Well, thanks for inviting me.
I'm really looking forward to this conversation. I think we're going to have a lot of fun.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Agreed.
So, Sheila, when you look back, what is your favorite memory of your time with a imperfectly honest?
[00:02:56] Speaker C: Well, I had a lot of fun throughout, but if I have to parse out one that really sticks in my mind, it's the beginning. You essentially suggested that we do this. And we planned out the idea of it, the visuals for the website, just some of the content we might want to do. Kind of agonized over how do we get and do this.
Had a few glitches with headsets that were rubbing and making too much noise.
But I feel like we learned a lot in a short amount of time. And I don't know, I guess that, for me was the.
The time when I'd say the ideas were, like, really bubbling.
[00:03:40] Speaker B: I agree. And when I think back about that time, what I most appreciated is I was going through a really tough time, and it was so nice to have something creative to work on and something that I felt excited about. And it was so nice to have you to brainstorm with and to just kind of work through our stuff with. I'm so appreciative of that. Thank you.
[00:04:06] Speaker C: Yeah, no, I'm.
If we had visuals, you know, you would see that I've been nodding my head the whole time you've been talking. Yeah. I mean, we were both kind of in challenging places. And I have to admit, and, you know, looking back now, hindsight, it really helped not pull me out. Wasn't like I was down in a hole or something, but it just.
It was something, as you say, creative to just focus on, and that can make so much of a difference.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: I agree. Purpose is important.
What was your favorite episode? Do you have a favorite?
[00:04:41] Speaker C: I have a few, because I went back and looked. I had forgotten so many of them, because, as you say, it's your 50th. I think I counted, and I probably did about 30 of those, which kind of boggles my mind a little bit, I guess. You know, the beginning ones. Again, not to. Not to belabor that point, but I felt the most energy around those, like the, you know. Do you keep your shoes on in the house?
[00:05:07] Speaker B: I went to this party one time, and we got a note ahead of time that they wanted us to take off our shoes because they had just installed new wood floors that were impressionable. And so they created this contest of who could have the best slippers to wear to this party.
I thought it was really cute.
[00:05:31] Speaker C: I've gotten comments from people that really kind of hit a lot of people's buttons. And it's always fun to get feedback from people.
And the living alone one, I mean, it kind of solidified for me a lot of the good things that I feel I benefit from from living alone. So I think that's going to always be dear to my heart.
[00:05:50] Speaker B: When I had the opportunity to actually eat what I wanted to eat, when I wanted to eat it. It was like revolutionary for me.
[00:05:58] Speaker C: I agree. For me, that's one of the biggest perks. It's whatever I want to eat, whenever I want to eat it and in whatever manner I want to eat it. And nobody ate it before me, right?
[00:06:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:11] Speaker C: And I guess if I had to bring on the rear here and not the rear, it's just as favorite as the others. I really enjoyed that. The one with Jimmy Colano about the email response time. Just I guess to have a different kind of energy in our conversation, you know, just to have someone else, a male who was giving a perspective. Not that it was a male based subject, but it was kind of fun.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: The one time I like to talk on the phone actually is when I'm on my life cycle sometime between 8 and 9 in the morning.
And if you call me then, boy,
[00:06:49] Speaker D: I'm going to answer for sure.
[00:06:50] Speaker B: And I'll be a Chatty Cathy.
And the one line I've used ad nauseam is breathing heavy, it's not you I'm working out.
[00:06:59] Speaker C: Yeah, I love it.
The same with the one with Matt Seuss.
You know, having having that different perspective, I think really kind of energized things up a little bit.
[00:07:13] Speaker B: I liked those as well. And for those listeners who haven't listened to every single episode, I just kind of want to underscore a few of the things that we talked about in those episodes. So the first one you mentioned, I believe was the taking off your shoes episode. We talked about how, especially in the us it isn't always common to ask people to take off their shoes in your home. And we both prefer that.
And we've found that a lot of people have judgments about that. And. And I actually have been thinking a lot about that episode because I've changed my thinking a bit on it. I still prefer that people don't wear their shoes in my home.
And I'm much more relaxed about it. And I actually like that I'm more relaxed about it because some people just aren't comfortable without their shoes on in my home. And I want all people that I care about to be comfortable in my home. So I'm willing to give up my perfection in the name of people feeling comfortable.
And what I really took away when I listened to that again is it's less about whether people wear shoes in my home or not. It's more about finding the courage to just kindly state that I have a preference.
And if I'm honest, I'm still kind of working on that. That is uncomfortable for me. When I have a preference that's unconventional, I have a hard time voicing that.
[00:08:48] Speaker C: Well, I have to interject. I used to use that word a lot. I don't think asking somebody to take their shoes off is that unconventional, especially now. So, you know, I'm glad that you've gotten more comfortable when there are people who I guess must push back or something. But I'm kind of sticking with my opinion on that one.
I think it's your space.
I'm not going to force somebody if it's like, I don't want to.
But I have found that pretty much everybody is like, oh, you know, it's. I don't know. It's kind of respectful. Yeah.
[00:09:25] Speaker B: And it is uncommon in the state of Montana, I will say that.
[00:09:29] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:09:29] Speaker B: Okay.
And I see both sides of it. And the thing that I appreciated about myself when I re. Listened to that is even though at the time that we recorded that I had a very strong preference for people to take their shoes off in my house, I still approached this subject with the spirit of curiosity and the ability to see both sides of my story. However, I would give myself a C on that.
I was doing those things, but I wasn't fully leaning into that. And I just want to approach all things with a.
A plus spirit of curiosity and ability to see both sides and then just kindly state that I have a preference on one side or the other.
[00:10:17] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a high bar.
[00:10:19] Speaker E: Wow.
[00:10:19] Speaker C: A plus.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
Except that's what I want to do. That doesn't mean that that's what I'm going to deliver, but that's my intention.
[00:10:28] Speaker C: Okay, now sounds good.
[00:10:30] Speaker B: I also listened to our episode about our shared preference for living alone, and I've really changed my own tune on that.
[00:10:41] Speaker C: Actually gonna. I. I was gonna ask you myself if you didn't bring it back up again.
[00:10:46] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, when I got divorced, I really felt like I wanted to live alone. I craved having the experience of not having to compromise all the time and having just a space that was only mine. And it didn't mean that I ever wanted to only be by myself. It's just I wanted some space that was only mine. And I don't actually feel that way anymore. I think in part because I, for the first time in my life, really experienced loneliness after my divorce. Not only was I divorced, but I was living in a place where I didn't know anyone, and that got old.
And also I didn't realize I have a really powerful mind. And my mind runs a marathon every day and then I'm tired and I didn't realize that coming home and being with another person helped my mind calm down for the day.
When I'm by myself, I have a hard time shutting my brain off.
That was much more challenging than I thought.
[00:12:02] Speaker C: Hmm, that's interesting. I mean, I. I would have to say when you talk about how coming home to somebody it's helpful to calm, it calms your day. You know, it just depends on the person.
I think most people would be thinking as you're saying that, you know, there are people that you can have that situation with who do not calm you down actually can wind you up even more. So I guess what I'm feeling from now, this follow up conversation we're having, that a lot of it is not just the situation of living alone, it's who you would be living with.
[00:12:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's part of that. I think it's also.
I have a different life now. I used to have a very extroverted job and a lot of social interaction through the day. And so I liked coming home and being quiet and I don't have that anymore. So that has shifted.
Also, I think a big shift that I've made is I used to allow small things like whether my ex husband would leave the toilet seat up or something like that annoy me. And after having the experience of really feeling lonely, I'm just a lot more tolerant of those things.
And so that's not taking up as much space in my mind. It's easier for me to just live in harmony with someone than it was before.
[00:13:37] Speaker C: Oh, well, that's interesting. So both those episodes, which I pointed out are probably two of my favorites in which I feel whatever I said is the way I feel now. And you have it sounds like almost the opposite feeling, which is interesting. Fascinating actually.
[00:13:58] Speaker B: And I'm so glad that we recorded it. I think one of the best things about going back and listening to some of these is we've got a record of some of the events in our lives. And it was fun to just hear what I thought then and think about what I think now.
[00:14:14] Speaker C: Oh, I agree. I agree. It is just looking at the titles as I was going over them for this episode and just remembering, it's like I didn't, you know, I didn't have the chance to listen to all of them, but I'll probably go back and listen to a few because it's like, oh gosh, I forgot about that one. Like I Forgot about the one where we discussed if you knew when you were gonna die. You know, the book that I. I can't remember the name of the book, but was the jumping off point. People in the book were notified everybody in the world by a string or thread or something. And we had a conversation about that. Like, would you want to know?
And I think actually getting into how you switch your opinion for these other. I think in the middle of that podcast episode, you switched your opinion.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I often switched my opinion.
[00:15:07] Speaker C: Well, no, it was f. I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to say, God, you stick to something, will ya? No, I just mean it was.
As you parse things out, a lot of times, you start to get more intuitive about how you really feel.
[00:15:23] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:24] Speaker C: You know, and I'm not going to pull the age card, but I guess I'm going to pull the age card. I have to say, you know, with my 25 years on you, I think I probably. I'm at a place and was at a place when we recorded those episodes where I'd done a lot, a lot.
Did I say a lot of thinking, maybe overthinking, but that's kind of. When I look at these episodes, I'm not sure there's going to be anywhere I'm going to go, oh, my God, what was I thinking by saying that?
And that's not, oh, I'm so great. Like, I'm so sure of myself all the time. I think it's just because that's what I've kind of been doing for a lot of decades.
[00:16:05] Speaker B: How about that episode with Jimmy Colano about email response time? So the premise was that you and Jimmy typically respond very quickly to emails, and I like to respond to emails when I had space to do so. So if I'm feeling really creative, I want to turn off my email and focus on my writing. For instance, have you changed your thinking at all about that or any thoughts since then?
[00:16:39] Speaker C: I guess when I said that was one of my favorites, it might. I mean, I liked the content. I definitely did. And expressing an opinion around that, it was more just the energy and the format and all that. But to that point, no, I kind of. I mean, again, and I said this in the. In the episode with the two of you. You two have a far greater volume of emails to respond to than I could ever imagine.
And so it was very easy for me to say, oh, I get back to people, like, almost immediately, because it's just not that daunting for me.
Now, Jimmy, I think has quite a volume. I mean, he might have shared it, in fact, in the episode. And yet he has established a system or just a way of operating where he feels it's important to get back to people because that's who he is. And I respected that. I also respected your side of the story as to why you don't feel that's right for you.
[00:17:36] Speaker B: Appreciated hearing both of your and Jimmy's perspective on things. Because the main takeaway that I'm going to remember from that is there are people who are important to me who feel it's important to respond quickly and also prefer to have a quick response. And when I know that someone really cares about that, even though it's not something that I care, and even though I feel differently about the subject matter, just knowing that that's something that's important to them is helpful for me to keep in mind. So I always try to respond a little bit more quickly to both you and Jimmy now and knowing a little bit more about your preferences.
[00:18:23] Speaker C: Well, that's nice. I appreciate that. Thank you. And it's funny as you're talking. Cause again, I've been thinking about a lot of the other episodes and the theme that seems to go run through a fair amount of the ones that we did. And it is that concept of we don't always understand what the other person is perceiving about us.
We understand what we perceive. If we were that person, that's what we would perceive. But it could be a whole different thing.
And learning that lesson and learning what is not important to us could be extremely important to somebody else. And then they're going to have that takeaway from a situation when they either get what they want or need or they don't. And it could impact enormously on our relationship.
[00:19:14] Speaker E: Is.
[00:19:15] Speaker C: I really do think it's been a common thread in a lot of what we talked about.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: I concur.
And how about the episode with Matt Seuss? Did something stick out to you about that episode?
[00:19:28] Speaker C: Oh, I just feel like we had so much fun. I mean, I just remember laughing a lot during it, really. He's a great guy, you know, I mean.
I mean, the content was great, if I remember. It was, you know, when do you reveal things about yourself? Is it too soon? Are you an oversharer?
And just coming up with those kind of anecdotes and situations was just so much fun.
Really was.
[00:19:53] Speaker B: Well, it's funny that you're mentioning that today because I actually spent some time with Matt on Sunday.
I hosted an imperfectly honest weekend on the topic of relationships, how to have candid conversations about relationships, and had a workshop on Sunday and talked about what do we want our story to be. It's a story that we feel we were born to tell. And Matt survived cancer this year. He went through a pretty significant challenge of chemo and radiation for neck and throat cancer and came out the other side. And we had a really interesting conversation about whether he wants that to be his story. And I think he's sitting with this question at the moment. But I think my takeaway on the when to reveal the story is Sheila, I'm actually grateful that you are a person who frequently says, don't share this.
[00:21:00] Speaker C: Well, not frequently. Don't say frequently. No, don't say frequently. Every once in a while.
[00:21:07] Speaker F: Yeah.
[00:21:07] Speaker B: And I like to share things of being imperfectly honest about what's going on in my life. Obviously that's the whole point of this podcast.
And sometimes things just are a little too personal and sometimes you share them at the wrong time. And sometimes when you share something, when an idea is really half baked, then you feel differently later. I mean, that episode about living alone is something I think about a lot because I am dating.
And I do wonder if somebody listened to that, if they might say that person isn't for me and I'm not actually that person anymore. So I do think about that. However, my other takeaway is if somebody listened to that episode and still said this person isn't for me.
I actually think in that instance that that person probably isn't for me, even though I don't feel that way anymore because I did approach that episode with a lot of curiosity with the idea that I might not be right.
And that's just a takeaway that I think I'm learning that when I share half baked ideas. And for me it's really hard for me not to share half baked ideas because I'm an entrepreneur. I'm constantly throwing spaghetti against the wall to see what's going to stick. And if I have to wait until I have every idea fully formed, then I lose that brainstorming, creativity, collaboration potential that I have with people in my life. And so I think just when you do share sharing that this is a half baked idea. And I'm not sure that this is the opinion that I'm going to hold a month from now. But this is what I'm thinking about now is a better approach than what I've done sometimes in the past where I've felt really strong conviction about an idea that wasn't Fully formed. And I presented it almost as fact.
And I think that's when it comes back to my field.
[00:23:17] Speaker C: Yeah. And if I'm remembering the instances when, you know, you may have asked my opinion and I was cautionary, I really think the majority, if not most of them, maybe all, were in blog posts where it's your voice and that's it. Like, there's no, I hate to say pushback because that's not really what we were doing in the episodes, but it kind of was a little.
And I think it falls a little bit harder on people when you are very adamant or you make a statement about something that you may not in the future have that same opinion when it's just in writing and you're stating it. There's no counter argument in that situation. And that's why I think in those situations, I said, maybe you want to think about it. I'm not sure that in any of our episodes, the podcast episodes, I've ever afterwards said, maybe we should edit that out. Maybe one time where you talked about somebody and you gave some information. And I said, oh, maybe they won't. They might be able to be identified. I think that really is the only
[00:24:24] Speaker B: time I think that's right. I think that's a really interesting observation.
When you say things in writing, it takes more of an authoritative, definite tone than when it's in conversation.
Right.
[00:24:40] Speaker C: And as I said, I think, you know, I don't know, there might have been some editing situations where it was just more trying to be protective of somebody's identity. And I said, maybe we should edit it out. But I don't think we critiqued each other for editing. We just left it up to Tony, who's a wonderful editor, just for like, sound and where he thought, you know, a cut could be made. But I honestly don't remember having conversations like that about content.
[00:25:09] Speaker B: I think that's right. So I guess the lesson is share in conversation.
[00:25:17] Speaker C: Well, yeah. And not always be recorded, Right?
[00:25:23] Speaker B: Yes. So, Sheila, in what ways has imperfectly honest put you out of your comfort zone?
[00:25:30] Speaker C: Well, I guess just recording, you know, I even had a blog post where I mentioned how I just don't like the sound of my own voice, which is a common thing for people. I think Liz, your right hand person, and she did a wonderful episode that is also one of my favorites. So I'm just going to put that little shout out, the one that you and she, where you discussed her kidney donation, that was like on my all time favorite list of imperfectly honest episodes. But Anyway, she expressed that beforehand to me, said, oh, I don't know, I don't think I'm gonna like how my voice sounds.
So it took me out of my comfort zone to start it and then I was in a comfort zone.
[00:26:12] Speaker B: I like that.
For me, I always have a fear that I'm not going to sound articulate unless I do a lot of preparation and think through exactly what I'm gonna say.
And you can't do that in a conversation.
So learning to trust that I have done enough work to be able to have a free flowing conversation without an extraordinary amount of preparation was the biggest challenge for me. And one thing that was really interesting in listening to some of the first episodes is I thought because we've done so many episodes and I've just been doing a lot more speaking than I ever have, that I was significantly more articulate than I was 50 episodes ago. And I do think I've improved, but it's not that big of an improvement, which in some ways is disappointing. And in other ways I think that I just kind of needed to trust myself. And I want to remember that lesson. To just trust that you've done the work and that you have arrived and that you don't have to continue to audition is sometimes the best strategy.
So trusting myself was the biggest area of personal growth Is there area of personal growth that you've achieved?
[00:27:39] Speaker C: I think just to swing back a little bit to what I said just a little bit earlier about assessing communication style.
Not just the content of what I'm saying, but the way I'm saying it and the way it might be landing on somebody has been something that's become more evident to me how important that is as we've gone through the episodes.
So I guess that's personal growth. Definitely. I'm very much more mindful of my communication style.
[00:28:10] Speaker B: Well, I think learning how it lands on people might be a nice way to land this episode. And I guess the last thought that I'll share on that is it's important to know how things land on people and you might not always know. And so sometimes it's good to ask and sometimes it's good to trust when you don't have the opportunity to ask that you just did your best. And having good friends like Sheila who helped you see your blind spots and also see when you're your best self is really a big help. So thank you, Sheila, and thank you.
[00:28:50] Speaker C: I agree with everything you said. Back at you.
[00:28:53] Speaker B: All right, listeners, number 50, thank you.
[00:28:57] Speaker C: Five, zero.
[00:28:58] Speaker B: Bye.
[00:28:59] Speaker C: Bye.
[00:29:00] Speaker A: As we Wrap this milestone episode. We wanted to leave you with a little gift and look back at some of the conversations that have helped shape imperfectly honest. Thank you for being here, for reflecting alongside us, and for reminding us that curiosity isn't about having all the answers. It's about being willing to keep asking better questions of ourselves and those around us.
So enjoy a few of our favorite moments until next time.
[00:29:28] Speaker E: Time.
[00:29:29] Speaker B: How do you think about the level of quote, unquote, change you want to make to your hair and your body and all those things, to adhere to conventional beauty standards and to feel good about yourself?
[00:29:45] Speaker E: To me, this again comes back to personal confidence.
I honestly believe that that is one of the most important criteria for anyone's success. And I think going back to the whole, you know, men versus women dynamic, I think that men are innately more confident than women. And to me, confidence is the thing that allows you to show up with your best self.
And if showing up with your best self means that you are going to do your hair in a certain way or you're going to dress in a certain way, and whether that means you're going to make alterations on the look that you have or whatever, it has to start with you and not doing it for somebody else, or not trying to do it to fit in, but to do it to make you feel better in the world. Because I do think that when you are confident in yourself, you show up in a way that allows you to bring more of the yourself to the world. And I think at the end of the day, that's part of what our roles on this earth are, is to show up in a way that's meaningful.
And I think you do that if you have more confidence.
[00:30:57] Speaker A: It really began this journey in my early 30s of recognizing.
I don't want to become a mother in that kind of traditional sense. But there has been this.
I don't know what the right word is. Ache, maybe to. To want to fulfill that in some capacity. And I think that that's started a really beautiful journey in kind of expanding that definition of, of motherhood and recognizing. Well, mother energy can exist beyond simply growing life and pushing that out of your body.
It can reside in how you show up for the people you care for, for your, your family, your chosen family, for your, your animals, your friends, the way you mother, you know, young people in a similar career path, mentoring them.
It just, I think that it can take some really interesting, unexpected and valuable kind of directs it, directions and shapes if you get curious about it and
[00:32:05] Speaker G: allow it when people Use their default view as what is right and good. To have a conversation with other people about something so deeply personal as having children or donating an organ that you just run up against reality and other people's experiences in a way that can be really hard for your own worldview.
And may I recommend that in the future, if someone asks when you're planning to have children, you could kindly respond, well, when are you planning to donate an organ?
Because honestly, donating organ was way easier for me than having a child.
My kidney is off living its best life somewhere in Massachusetts. Meanwhile, I need to go pick my 6 year old up later this afternoon and deal with whatever demands he wants to have of my time.
[00:33:03] Speaker B: What did you learn from your mother's high highs or your mother's successes?
[00:33:09] Speaker D: I guess do, do what you love.
And in her case, her husband, my dad, died when she was, I'm going to say 44, 45, and I was still in college.
And she didn't know what she wanted to do. She never had to take care of herself.
But she had started to lose her hearing. So she sort of threw herself in the world of the hard of hearing.
She had no clue what she was doing from a business perspective. But it all worked out really well because I think in the end you will always have enough energy to pick yourself up if you're doing what you love.
[00:33:58] Speaker B: It's really nice.
Really nice.
I hate the feeling that I get when I realize that someone's feeling sorry for me for something that I'm not feeling sorry about myself.
[00:34:13] Speaker C: That statement that you just made, it resonates with me and I think it probably resonates with a lot of people.
I mean, that really is, you know, maybe say it again.
[00:34:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I hate the feeling that I get when I realize that someone is feeling sorry for me for something that I am not feeling sorry for about myself.
I think it's more important to think about the way that you want to feel in a relationship versus the specific qualities you want someone to have. And that can make it hard to find people with an algorithm. But I also just think it's a good thing to pay attention to.
[00:34:51] Speaker C: Oh yeah. And that actually set me up for this last point I wanted to make. I completely support, encourage, agree with you, wanting to do the inner working work. Think of what I want and is this, can I get from this person, but as a part of it a little bit, what is it that I can give this person that will give me joy, that I, I think there's a quality of mine that might add to that happiness too. But sometimes what is the expression the whole is greater than the sum of the parts?
[00:35:26] Speaker F: One of my favorite things is this is my imperfect advocacy and it reminds me of the name of your podcast. It's like I love to travel abroad because I like to uproot myself out of my comfort zone and put myself into a situation where I'm immensely uncomfortable and readjust my expectations. It sets me straight with what my personal goals are in the long term and it gets my head in a space where I come home super grateful for everything I have and understanding that we're interconnected. No matter if you live in Big Sky Montana or Port Moresby, Papua New guinea, it literally doesn't matter. We all have a part to play in the forward solutions and just because we're imperfect in the ways that we are does not mean that we can't advocate for everybody, including ourselves to be better.
[00:36:18] Speaker G: SA.
