Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Kayla here and I've got a question for you. How quickly do you make your decisions? Do you answer invitations immediately, almost reflexively, or do you pause, letting the question sit quietly and ruminate a bit before you respond?
In this episode of Imperfectly Honest, Elizabeth reunites with Sheila Lamond to explore the pros and the cons of moving through life and as what they refer to as a default yes or default no personality. You see, early in her career, Elizabeth was a self proclaimed default yes who over time slowly shifted into a default no, leaning a little bit more into the protective, efficient and perceived safety that opting out can bring. But recently she started to wonder if defaulting to no may be contributing to a bit of a loss in her personal growth, agility and just opportunity to connect in unexpected, expected and fulfilling ways. So together, Elizabeth and Sheila talk about the speed at which they move through their choices and really how past experiences shape the answers that they give today. My follow up question for you is this what I want you to kind of hold with you as you listen to this episode? Are you a default yes or no person? And if you are a no, is it wisdom, fatigue, fear, boundaries, or simply habit? And if you are more of a yes, is that yes out of people pleasing or coming from a true place of joy?
This conversation invites a slower look at how you decide, why you decide, and whether your default response still reflects the life you're trying to build.
So without further ado onto the episode, I hope you enjoy their conversation as much as I did.
[00:01:58] Speaker B: This isn't perfectly honest.
I'm Elizabeth and after about four decades, I'm shifting from the person I always thought I should be to the person I really want to be, in part because I've learned to be honest both with myself and just about everybody I encounter. It's not always perfect, sometimes it's a rocky road. But I'm learning a lot by being imperfectly honest and thought you might learn something too. Hey listeners. As you might remember, my co founder of Imperfectly Honest, Sheila Lamont, decided that she wanted to pursue some other topics for a while and we've been talking as friends do, and both shared that we kind of missed being on the podcast together.
So Sheila is back today and we have a topic that interested both of us and thought it might interest some of you.
[00:02:59] Speaker C: Yeah. Hi everybody. Hi Elizabeth.
[00:03:02] Speaker A: Hey there.
[00:03:02] Speaker C: As I used to say, we kind of came together last week, really with a meeting of the minds, like, yeah, is there something we can do again together?
So Elizabeth shared with me that over the last 10 years, she grew her career and her professional personal network by being what she called a, quote, default yes person.
I'm getting the sense she means she was more prone to accept rather than reject unexpected invitations and opportunities which came her way.
But then I think it morphed into over time, she started wondering whether you were losing more than you were gaining in that quest to meet new people, experience new things. You actually categorized it as pursuing those shiny objects which came your way.
I think what happened is your default yes changed to default no, but now pivot ahead. And I got the sense from what you shared with me that you're wondering if that may have led to a bit of a loss, maybe in personal growth and agility and even maybe the ability to factor in good and bad together.
You shared, again that you're looking at it in taking a different approach when presented with these many invites and opportunities.
And you noted this question that you ask yourself now, what is the joy that could come from this experience to end the teeing up? You asked me for my perspectives on this issue, and we actually both thought it would make an interesting conversation.
[00:04:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's right.
I just grew my network to.
When I looked at my Gmail context, I realized I had 5,780 contacts, and I'm really proud of that network, you know, when there's just only so many relationships that you can manage.
And so I started saying no more than I said yes. And I think that that was a good process. But over the last year especially, I've started saying yes again because I just lost that ability to capitalize on unexpected opportunities in that process and have decided that I want to shift back to more of a default yes person, but to take some of the lessons that I learned from being a default yes person in a previous version of me to become a better yes person.
[00:05:55] Speaker C: So you really got my wheels turning. And I have to admit, what you shared resonated because I would say I had a similar trajectory through life, which I think maybe a lot of other people can also identify with that at first. As you're younger, you. You are more prone to agree and embrace new experiences much more often than maybe not. I'm not saying in every case. I'm not trying to stereotype it according to age, but I think that's kind of how we move through life's journey.
And then I got to the point, like you, where you start questioning, okay, do I really need to be saying yes all the time?
Meeting new friends is great, having new experiences, but I'M adding more stuff in my life that is being impacted. Both my own needs and desires and the way I kind of want to live my life and also the other people in my life and what they need by me agreeing and saying yes all the time.
You posed this question when we said we're going to talk about this. Do you want to be a default yes or a default no person?
And so I'm going to put a little bit of a spin on this.
I think I'd like to be a default maybe person.
[00:07:14] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:07:15] Speaker C: I know I didn't warn you ahead of time and that, you know, everybody might say, well, what does that mean? And I guess it means that I think I've come to the conclusion that every situation actually does need to be looked at with a little bit of a careful lens.
I don't know if I'm going to support yes, I should do default yes or default no.
And when I say I want to be default maybe it's kind of taking a little bit more time in like every situation that comes in to say, let me think about it.
And I almost said default. It depends, because it's not just thinking I have to say yes or I need to say no.
It's there could be tweaks to it if I explore it a little more.
So I want to talk more about whether you agree with this is. I mean, because you're almost doing that when you say that, you stop for a minute, take a breath, and say, what joy am I getting from this?
So you're not defaulting. Because, okay, you know me, I can get very anal. So I looked up the definition of default. And of course there's different definitions like default and, you know, alone, whatever.
But the one that I think you were referring to is more the techie thing. And it's reverting to a preselected option.
It's like anything that comes in, the default is yes, no.
So I would prefer to have that kind of state of mind where everything that comes in to taking a little time to say, let me assess it.
And I know that is not always possible, depending on the situation, the context, but I think it can be more possible than we may consider.
[00:09:18] Speaker B: One of your superpowers is that you're really good at seeing potential pitfalls.
It made you a good attorney, it makes you a good friend and good mom and all those things.
And so that's why I tend to think that you might be a default no person because of that.
But who someone has been historically doesn't need to be who they are in the future. And so I guess I'm curious where your head is as to how you're feeling about that superpower of being able to see potential pitfalls and when it serves you and when it doesn't.
[00:10:02] Speaker C: Okay, you brought up a good point, but I think I'm gonna elaborate on that. I agree. I don't know if it's a superpower. It's just, unfortunately, I can overthink is what kind people say to me, but it doesn't mean that then I would turn things down.
I think it actually feeds into what I just said it means. And that's what I did as an attorney. You're right. And as a mom and everything, I would look ahead and I would think, not just what are the pitfalls, but what are the advantages?
I'm not making the decision yet. I'm assessing.
I am thinking about what could be a good response.
I think we have morphed into I'm going to sound old again. A society where we feel like we have to immediately answer. I am as guilty as anybody. Like, if I send an email and I mean, you've commented on it. We had a whole podcast episode. Jimmy Colano and I agreed. Yeah, we're the ones that respond immediately. And we're always wondering, where are you? Why are you not responding? And in this particular question, I don't know. I think I like taking a pause to get back to what you first said. How does that mean if I'm always thinking of what could be the disadvantages? And that would make me a default? No, I think it would make me a default, maybe. And I weigh them and I say, okay, is there a way to, as I said, tweak this request with the other person if there's another person involved, and move it more into yes, this could be something positive versus there's too many challenges.
[00:11:54] Speaker B: How do you decide whether you're a yes or no, then? In that situation, is there something that you can universally apply to every question?
[00:12:05] Speaker C: No, I don't think there is. Are we concentrating more on what would amount to personal potential opportunities, or are you more concentrating on the business stuff that comes flooding into your inbox?
[00:12:22] Speaker B: I'm not sure it matters.
I'll just kind of share what's in my head. So one of the challenges about being more mature, I'll say more mature rather than older, is that older is fine.
[00:12:37] Speaker C: As long as you don't say old. Older's fine.
[00:12:41] Speaker B: Older and more mature, I have more relationships, I have more experience.
That helps Me determine what a situation is going to be like.
And as a result, it is harder for me to say yes to things.
And that is good in many ways, because staying focused is important, especially when you set goals that you care about.
And it's detrimental because it can prevent innovation and creativity and new relationships and growth and agility, like we talked about.
And so, for me, I want to shift from jumping to the conclusion that I already know how something is going to play out to asking myself what sort of unexpected opportunities or unexpected joy might come out of that. So yesterday is a good example.
[00:13:45] Speaker C: Okay, good. I love examples.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: I am in Vail right now. I skied yesterday, and the forecast was for torrential winds.
It was really warm the day before.
And so that normally softens up the snow. Then it freezes, and then there's snow on top of it. But then the wind, if it's windy, the wind sort of blows it off. It's just. It doesn't make for a pleasant experience. But I haven't been in Vail for a long time. I was really looking forward to seeing some friends. And sometimes you just get lucky with the weather and it doesn't play out like the forecast says or something happens unusual, and it's better than you think. And so I wanted to say there's no way I'm gonna ski tomorrow. And granted, there is a risk. I'm actually a lot more concerned about hurting myself skiing than I used to because I understand the cost of rehabbing injuries much better now.
So there is definitely a risk.
But I just kind of allowed myself to sit for a second rather than jumping to the conclusion that I know exactly how the scheme is going to be and it's not worth the risk. I just let myself feel.
Do I feel like there is going to be some joy there that I really want to see? Am I feeling like it's the right thing to do to ski? What is my intuition telling me? And my intuition told me that I was really craving human connection and that that was probably more important than the potentially terrible skiing.
And I went, and sure enough, the skiing was much better than I anticipated. I had some great conversations. I was really glad that I went.
And a year ago, I probably would have stayed home and focused on my work because it was a good day to be on a laptop with torrential winds outside.
So I'm just kind of going back to something that I mentioned in the last episode, which is that the body is smarter than the mind. That when you allow yourself to feel what you think you should do oftentimes that's more effective than my previous approach of overthinking and overanalyzing. Plus just assuming that I know the answer because I've had this, a similar experience in the past
[00:16:14] Speaker C: and all the things you said, I agree with. The thing that, that struck me is in that decision making process you did take a beat, you did think about all the things you just described the weather and how it could go awry.
But then you assessed, but I need this contact.
So that was in there. It wasn't like a default? No. Weather's bad.
[00:16:37] Speaker A: No.
[00:16:38] Speaker C: So that's, I think if it helps explain why I'm saying what I'm saying that I like default. Maybe.
So if I give my own example in terms of like invitations, opportunities that are presented to me, there are things they're not totally deal breakers, like default. No.
But my body clock is totally different. I don't do things great in the morning. I'm just not, I don't get going like I used to. I used to be up at like 5 o' clock in the morning all the time.
Now I really enjoy that time of getting a few extra hours of sleep.
So I've actually gotten to a point where the people that I know know this so I don't have to field off invitations for like 8 o' clock in the morning.
So that, that goes a long way to eliminating, needing to be a default. Maybe because I don't get those kind of invitations.
But occasionally I still, you know, there are situations where I still want to assess and I'm going to give an example like you did. A few weeks ago, a friend wanted to get together and I had a medical procedure. I'm not getting it into health because I said I don't want to talk about health. But that was scheduled a few days later and it was, the place we were going to meet at was like this, you know, it's, it's always like a crowded bar with a lot of people and you know, it's, I'm sorry, Covid has impacted on my brain. So it's like I walk in and I'm like, I'm walking into a petri dish here.
So I didn't say default, yes or no. We actually went back and forth and in the process we had a conversation where we changed. She was able to meet somebody because she was there and she was able to have an opportunity to meet somebody there for a little while. And then we went to a place that was less crowded, that was more comfortable for me.
So that Is an example of my default. Maybe that played out into a yes, but it. It's taking a beat.
And I think that's what I wanted, to kind of have more. Have this conversation kind of veer in. Because, like I said, I think that you.
Because default just means you don't even think. You just. That's what the computer does. It's like there's no thinking involved.
It's just, boom, A thing comes in, and it goes to that. And so when you said, do you want to be a default yes or default no?
I kind of want to be in the middle.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:19:30] Speaker C: I got the sense that's what you want to do, too. It might be a faster process than I might have, but I think you're still assessing each situation quickly.
Or maybe I'm wrong. You tell me.
[00:19:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the difference from my old way of decision making to now is the speed at which I'm making decisions.
So I used to overthink things too much. Well, let's be honest. I still overthink things too much, but I'm trying to increase the speed at which I make decisions.
And I'm also applying different criteria. I used to be really focused on what was the professional outcome of my decision.
How could I be most efficient with my time? How could I stay focused on the arbitrary goals that I had set for myself?
And now I focus more on how can I have the kind of human connection that I feel I need? Because I also was very affected by Covid and realized that human connection was much more important than I had ever thought.
And I think about what's the joy that might come from an experience. And then I also think about what are some of the unexpected things that I may not even be able to anticipate that may come out of the experience.
And just shifting the lens from which I'm making a decision seems to be making a positive impact on my life.
[00:21:12] Speaker C: Yeah. And again, I don't really think we're at odds at all in this conversation, because what you expressed that you were doing and that you've kind of assessed, maybe you want to move, is.
It sounded like all speed, like you want to respond quick. And sometimes with building a career, moving forward, kind of up the ladder, success that's required human connections, while they can also contribute in that regard probably more than people recognize, they take more time.
You have to kind of slow the pace a little bit. I mean, I've had situations where the first connection with somebody, it was boom, boom, boom, whatever. And then that didn't work. Out very well and then you give it another try. A totally different subject. I understand that, but it's all about time. It's all about reassessing, thinking about things.
And I, I think we're too sped up these days.
We don't value or recognize the value of taking a little bit of time and what that can bring us.
So are you feeling like we're sinking in with this conversation or are you feeling like I'm not?
[00:22:43] Speaker B: No, I think we're sinking in. And I think for me the taking the time is.
I'm not sure if it's the same perspective, but I am trying to make decisions more quickly because I'm realizing that having more open space in my life is productive for me. I used to have a very scheduled, over packed life and I would also spend too much time deciding whether to do something or not.
And that wasn't a good combination. So.
[00:23:24] Speaker C: Okay, yeah, now I'm under. I actually am understanding a little bit.
We're on the same page a little bit. But maybe not like we're in the same chapter, but because it helps you from what I'm hearing, to start from that perspective where your calendar isn't like hitting you in the face.
So you need sometimes to make quick decisions to pare it down so then you can get to that point that you can go slower.
Whereas I'm probably at a point where, yeah, I can drive along at 15 miles an hour all the time.
All that's going to do. I don't drive anymore. Don't worry anybody. I'm not going to be on the road driving 15 miles an hour.
But, you know, that's the analogy. It's like you need to. At least this is what I'm hearing, you need to have that speed at first and then you can slow down a little bit with what's left.
[00:24:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's right.
[00:24:27] Speaker C: Yeah, a lot of it. Which, you know, I always want to say in any of the conversations we have, we have such different lives, we are such different people.
The thing I enjoy the most is when we can come to some point where we say everything is different, but there's a little bit of the same.
And I, you know, I'm not going to get. I think that's something we all need because we're all very different in a lot of ways, but we can find things that are very similar.
That's my, that's my little up in the soapbox now. I'm back down.
[00:25:11] Speaker B: I think that's right. And actually that might be A good closing thought. It's a great thought.
[00:25:17] Speaker C: Yeah. We found a little bit of a mutual point of agreement here, and we learned something from each other, I think, which is something I think we always aspire to in every episode we had.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: Absolutely. And really in every conversation in life.
[00:25:33] Speaker C: I know. I know. This was fun. I hope it was fun for you.
[00:25:38] Speaker B: It was fun for me.
I hope it was fun for everyone else.
[00:25:42] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: Thank you, as always, Sheila.
[00:25:47] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm glad to hear that the skiing is picking up, because I know it's been a. It's been a tough winter for you guys out west in terms of snow and moisture, in fact, so.
[00:26:02] Speaker B: Yeah, it has been a tough winter, and I'm grateful that my biggest problem is that the skiing is bad.
So I'm trying to keep in perspective, and it's not good for our planet or even for our states. It's a problem for forest fires and all those things. So it's not really.
[00:26:23] Speaker C: No.
[00:26:23] Speaker B: Something I know to take lightly. But, yeah, I'm. I'm grateful that I just have the luxury of worrying about whether there's snow to ski or not.
[00:26:37] Speaker C: No, I. I understand that. And, you know, I'm. I'm happy in the Northeast that it actually was warm today.
Things were melting.
It's like, wow. Because it's been so frigid. So we got. We got in our weather stuff because we always have to talk about the weather, and it was our.
But with. With the idea that we're also aware that these are global issues, so I think we. We just really hit all the. We hit all the buttons, didn't we?
[00:27:11] Speaker B: We ran the gamut. We did. All right, Sheil.
[00:27:14] Speaker C: We did.
[00:27:15] Speaker B: Thanks again. Until next time.
[00:27:17] Speaker C: Yeah. Until next time. Bye, Elizabeth.
